Perdue wants 1-cent sales tax hike

We've mostly devolved into name calling. I've shut off comments on this post. BN

Bev evidently believes that the only way to break the deadlock in the General Assembly is to break the back of North Carolina's economy and tighten the noose she has placed around the neck of the working poor.

The content of Bev's plan represents machine politics at its finest.

Bev generously proposes to return $90 million to the electorate through small reductions in state income tax, in return for over $1 billion in new state sales taxes that every family in North Carolina will have to pay through 2011.

Bev floats the idea of a corporate income tax reduction to help the state economy during the current recession, but neglects to mention that the corporate tax reduction will not actually take effect until 2011! Bev's new $91 million tax on courier services more than offsets Bev's meager $52 million corporate income tax "reduction" in any event.

Keep your hand on your wallet if you ever visit Bev at the governor's mansion.

Fabulous! 10%+ unemployment and Perdue wants to make it harder on folks!

With regard to the amount of the sales tax- the present state sales tax rate is 4.25%, BUT most counties add a local tax of 2.5%, for a total sales tax of 6.75%. Adding "just a penny" amounts to a heck of a lot more than "spare change", making the new sales tax rate almost 8%!

I clearly remember paying a total sales tax of 4% in my lifetime. This is a 2X INCREASE! Has the value of the services I'm receiving from the government doubled? I think not. This is a governmental money grab, people, and it needs to be stopped!

I guess there was a time when there wasn't a whole lot of scrutiny as to what was done with our tax dollars, however it is becoming abundantly clear the politicians aren't doing a very good job with where it's spent, at least not for the benefit of the taxpayer. Both at a state and federal level we need more visibility into the allocations (N&O, where the heck are you?). I think we've been so complacent those that would take advantage have done so without anything standing in their way. They all get elected and take their turn at the tax coffers as if it were their feeding trough. Until we start making noise, it'll just keep on happening, and it seems to be more abusive and blatent as time goes on.

If any politicians act like they're concerned, they're faking it, it's not their money. They've got gigabucks to get reelected - and in NC, that's worth more than representing ever was (representatives lost long ago, now we're stuck with the debris politicians that are easily molded by their puppet masters.)

NC's already lost and we can walk into the losers locker room saying whatever we want because the side that has our money doesn't give a flying flip about you, or your problems. Campaign contributors - and their problems matter, not yours.

Now shut your traps and act like the good little spineless worms (that they know we are) and get ready for the next increase. And don't forget to act surprised when the next thing hits.

Oddly, Apple, who isn't in NC, gets a huge NC tax deduction - while citizens who live in NC, get a huge tax increase. Get it?

Also don't hate Purdue, hate the way she acts. I'd hate her if I respected her, so I can honestly say I don't hate her.

FYI: I voted for her and definitely don't hate her.

This topic has just developed into hatred for the Governor. Talking about her looks and mental capacity just reveals the real motivation here. This is a good proposal for the times we're in. She is the first governor in a long while who has actually made cuts and has been criticized for that as well. I think we're done here. I know I am.

OK...I digress, but what is up with her left eye? It won't blink with the right eye. Has she had work done/a mini-stroke/too much Botox???? It worries me because she (besides this new tax idea) seems delayed when she speaks.

To your point, myrtoge... Of course I don't believe state government never wastes money, or is 100% efficient. But this year's annual budget approval process isn't the place to pursue the specific program cuts and increased efficiencies you (and all of us) seek. The pols would never get out of Raleigh, and we'd be paying their per diems all summer!!

The more reasoned approach will be to bite the bullet now and accept these stop-gap measures, however painful (or, let's be honest, slightly painful) they might be. The trains need to keep running. [That's a metaphor folks... Resist the urge to post a comment criticizing me for advocating more spending on high-speed rail!]

Then, in the next election cycle, vote out any candidates who advocate continuing these "temporary" tax increases. [That's how to handle the concerns being expressed here about "no tax being temporary".] And vote in candidates who vow to change the budget/spending/oversight process to allow the more careful, program-by-program, employee-by-employee review that we all know is necessary.

It's simply too late, and the revenue shortfall is too deep, for us to put our heads in the sand and think we can get through this without the state collecting more revenue from us. You anti-taxers can't just wish this away. And as I've said before, posting complaints here without offering specific, realistic and timely alternatives is just wasting everyone's time.

Finally, I'm no "press lackey". And I don't work for state government. I'm just an average taxpayer in the 30% bracket who's realistic enough to know we're in a short-term crisis that's gonna require me paying more state taxes. Naturally I want government to be more efficient, but bloviating about any/all tax increases being unreasonable isn't part of the solution, it's part of the problem.

It's sad. But there is a campaign debt owed to the state employees and the teachers which must be paid! The shame is that we must pay it.

So what we need to do is to form a union for us left behind folks, the ignorant people. Maybe the Ignorant People Union (IPU). We will pay dues and hire some slick lobbyists. And then we will be a force to be reckoned with! Print up some shirts and hats and do some marches and some big talk. Make up some banners and lists of demands.

However, after these tax increases we can't afford to pay dues. So no union, no lobbyists and no voice. It's sad.

Are union dues taxed? No matter.....can't hardly afford the light bill.

Power to those left behind! Join the IPU and be free! We want more! Take out the water coolers and serve us FIJI water!

To Tommyboy.... Yeah, just up the sin taxes, that makes perfect sense. Let's see... $1 more tax on cigs and people cut back, resulting in little to no revenue increase to the state. Increase tax on alcohol and people cut back, resulting in little to no revenue increase to the state. Tax plastic shopping bags and and people stop using them, resulting in little to no revenue increase to the state. See a pattern here?

To ImpartiallyObservant, are you saying that you think there is no waste in government, that all their processes are perfect, that there is no politics being played that cost us dearly? You really must get those ears checked, Bev and the Raleigh Pol's have you following the Pied Piper's tune. Those of us that are realistic about the situation expect the government to look for this waste and get it out of the system. Just look at some of the N&O articles lately showing massive waste in government ($635M in waste on mental health initiatives). Now, are you sure that there are no good ideas there? Want some specifics? Stop building all new roads. Stop paying for any new infrastructure (State buildings, give aways to entice business, etc.) I'm sure there are many, many more ideas to be had. Just like our personal budgets, we need to think about what we can afford to do on our income, not just go out and squeeze some more from the taxpayers. That's incredibly poor fiscal management.

Buckle up folks this is a done deal. Someone mentioned New York and California as examples of where North Carolina is headed. What has happened in those states, which are virtually economic wastelands, is highly instructive. The only way to stop this downward spiral is to cut spending, not hold spending to "moderate increases" etc, but actually reducing outlays of money. Politicians are typically incapable of doing this since it tends to make them unpopular with vocal constituencies and jeopardizes their reelection to office.

Dumplin' just cannot wait to get her hands on more money. There is no such thing as a "temporary" tax. This tax increase will always be needed plus more. Dumplin' will tax cosmetic surgeries because she has already had her "head-to-toe" body makeover. I know Marc and Tony are so very proud of their Dumplin'.

I wouldn't mind a 1 cent tax increase at all. But wait- could this be one PERcent? Like of all goods sold in the state? That's a different matter.

It seems to me that the cost of government services should scale with the number of people using them, and therefore the number of people paying taxes. The RATE should remain fixed. Why is a greater and greater percentage of our earnings going to fund the government, in the form of higher rates and new taxes?

Something is fundamentally wrong with this system!

Bev ALWAYS wants more. She's NEVER had enough. Of ANYTHING. That's the problem.

tax and spend. what more do you need to know?

Vote an idiot in - you get idiot results

Dear Gov. Perdue:

You may want this ridiculous increase in revenue, but the citizens you serve do not. Your unwillingness to make cuts in the many state departments and agencies that waste money to the tune of millions is disturbing.

Did you not read the N&O series on how the incompetence of state government, when it comes to mental health funding, cost us millions? Sadly, that is just a tip of the iceburg.

What you are saying is that WE are supposed to cut our budgets while you just take OUR money. To expect the hard working people of our great state to give more when we have less, in a recession, is the epitome of arrogance.

Sincerely,
One of your citizens.

That's exactly the point, "captainjack"... Sales tax increases are powerful revenue options because they *are* about loose change. Ever hear of the "March of Dimes", or the pennies little children collected to refurbish the Statue of Liberty? They succeeded because none of the contributors felt any real "pain" in supporting the programs.

No one likes tax increases, but better you and I have fewer pennies -- that's right, pennies -- in our pockets at the end of the day than that:

-- a poor person goes homeless,
-- a sick person goes untreated, or
-- a corporation facing higher taxes lays off an employee/employees.

And thanks for making my point about the anti-tax crowd offering no realistic alternative. You didn't name a single specific program to cut, position to eliminate or alternative revenue option. You just fired your powder at someone who's willing to go on record to support an actual *solution* that could see us through this thing.

If there are going to be tax increases why not use them to influence consumers behavior in a beneficial way. Tax cigarettes at least $1 a pack since the NC state government and private state businesses pay tens of billions every year due to smoking related illnesses and lost productivity (not to mention all of our increased healthcare costs so we can subsidize smokers,) tax high fructose corn syrup which is a leading cause of obesity (heart disease, diabetes,...) Tax plastic shopping bags and make them $.10 each so they don't end up blowing along roads and end up spending 1,000 years in a landfill while they degrade releasing toxins into our ground and water. And yes, tax alcohol. And from the other end, can someone please come up with a system where all government agencies are not incentivized to spend all of their budget for fear of losing funding the next year. At present, how much money could be saved if only there was not unnecessary binge spending at the end of the fiscal year. Every year. Ask any state or local government employee if you need clarification on this. And finally, N&O do you really HAVE to send me vacation offers and other spam emails for me to have access to this discussion?

I'm happy (and would prefer) to allow the debate to continue. But I will have to cut it off if this thread devolves into a series of personal attacks.  — BN

Impartially Observant:

You are a wise person indeed. So we can raise taxes and no one is really going to notice. That is a great concept. So under your tax plan we just keep raising taxes and no one will even know. Adam Smith has nothing on you. Be sure and send your economic plan to Washington, DC. Fantastic!

When you wrote : "The only real impact on 99.99% of us will be a slightly smaller pile of loose change at the end of the day," I immediately thought - why didn't I think of that? So it's only about loose change! Amazing stuff!

The sadly predictable part of this debate is that none of the anti-tax-increase crowd offers any alternative. No realistic revenue options. No realistic spending cuts. Just whine and b****.

Given that traditional tax revenue has fallen through the floor, and traditional tax increases (i.e., income and business tax hikes) could prolong the recession, the idea of temporarily increasing the sales tax -- by a penny on a buck! -- is just about the only choice we've got.

What the whiners and b****ers are missing is that anyone who has enough cash to buy something isn't going let an extra 10 cents on a $10 item stop them from buying it. Even the very poor don't cry over 10 cents, for gosh sake. So the purchases will continue be made, no one will "go without", and the state will get some needed revenue.

The only real impact on 99.99% of us will be a slightly smaller pile of loose change at the end of the day. We face a massive problem, and a solution that just hits our loose change piles is one I (and all of us) can live with.

halcb: "...can we agree to stop the name calling and simply try to carry on a civil 'give and take' of ideas. And try to avoid the emotional, partisan, knee-jerk reactions that too often pass for communication in today's world?..."
*******

Great idea hal but from what I read NEITHER SIDE engages in name-calling and gratuitous insults ..... but boy "THEY" sure do. "They" of course being "the other side".

In one post some quite irate anonymous poster calls some other irate anonymous poster a long string of insulting names. Poster A apparently being quite upset over Poster B's "name-calling".

If it weren't for the name-calling there'd be no communication at all.

Want to reduce the deficit? Reduce the state spending. It is like we cannot wait to become the next California or New York State. I know we voted the governor and the house members into office but they seem to have forgotten those they were to represent. Perhaps we deserve lots of tax increases since we were the ones who voted these people into office.

Someone mentioned "recall". Is that possible?

Wow, I've read lots of crazy stuff in these comments this afternoon. Including one particularly brilliant recommendation: "Why don't we fire all the state employees we don't need?" Um, okay, and who exactly gets to make those decisions? Who defines what we truly need in terms of gov't services and what we don't? The Governor, the Legislature, the Department heads, some special 'star chamber committee' of political appointees? We've got a very real budget shortfall on our hands, and pointing fingers about how we got here (and calling people names) is not really helpful at this point. Everyone bears at least some partial responsiblity. These are not easy questions to answer or simple issues to resolve. That's why there's deal-making and political compromise. It's inherent in our system ... a democratic system based on a representative form of government. Venting is fine, but the level of discourse I've seen this afternoon has occasionally fallen below the line of civility. Dumbo Ears Obama? Dumplin' Perdue? Equating taxation to 'stealing from neighbors'? Likening a proposed tax increase to Sherman's path of destruction through the Confederate states? [Really? Really? We're still fighting the Civil War a century and a half later??]
Come on, folks. These are tough times and EVERYONE is being asked to make some sacrifices to get through them.
How about this as a starting point: can we agree to stop the name calling and simply try to carry on a civil 'give and take' of ideas. And try to avoid the emotional, partisan, knee-jerk reactions that too often pass for communication in today's world?
Just an idea, however naive it may be...

Our elected officials are too cowardly to raise income taxes on the wealthy -- so the class war on the poor continues with a regressive sales tax hike.

You are over the line, dlnorris. Tone it down and keep it civil. — BN

I want a recall election on "No Clue" Perdue just as bad as she wants a 1.6 billion dollar tax hike. Time to get started on that little piece of business and take our chances on someone else having a clue.

Lesson for all of the poor educated people that voted for king hussien and this air head....

sales taxes, sin taxes, and energy taxes are regressive... that means they tax the poor folks; income taxes, property taxes, and luxury taxes hit the rich.

king hussien, carolina airhead one, and thier party do-do's in all the legislative branches can not figure out how to balance a budget; amazingly they can continue to tax and enslave the poor and get re-elected....

look at the cities the democrats have controlled for years; all massive slums with no hope of a future... soon NC and USA may look like them, the ted kenedy / tip oneal model of progress... newark nj.... (it did improve the past 20 years thx to the Reagan revolution...).

Why would the legislature support Gov. Dumpling's request for any tax increase in this current economic climate? Any legislator who endorses a tax increase will be history the next election cycle. And, it goes without saying, Gov. Dumpling is already history..what a mistake she has been.

The jury's in on Bev Purdue and the verdict is: we lost.
Thanks for the brick Bev. You caught us right in the eye.

Now lets all be civil and take it like good little worms.

Oh how wrong you are and that coma you were in from 2001 to the beginning of this year has served you poorly -- the big R can be MUCH worse than the current crop of corruption. The last time I voted Republican, they promised me a balanced budget. Lasted 3 years and didn't do anything to reduce the debt. Once all of the Elephants got in the room, that mindset left the building and your boy W doubled the national debt in 8 years from 5 to 10 Trillion. Hsitory lesson: Reagonomics took us from 1 Tril to 2.5 Tril in 8 years. Bush Senior took us another 1.5 Tril in only 4 years, but Clinton needed 8 years to add another 1.5. So every time I see you post about how evil the donkey is, tell me how the pachyderm did. You can make fun of the other party all you want, but your opinion differs strongly from reality. The day I see you post about fighting corporate welfare (say, the last 3 bailouts over the past 2 years, or farm subsidies for AgriCorp, or the industrial-military complex, the examples keep coming) -- I'll take you more seriously. Almost every post I've seen in the past year is bottom-feeder trolling. How pathetic that you offer no concrete solutions. Only insults. Here's data to back up my claims: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm Start holding all of them to account.

North Carolinians will look back at Bev Perdue's decimation of our state and remember it the way Georgians and South Carolinians remember General Sherman's march.

Try $2.5 billion in new taxes when the emergency taxes don't expire as promised

A change from Governor Perdue is not a switch to Pat McCrory!

These taxes are probably the least harmful of any that she could propose. It is a lot better than an across-the-board increase in the State Income Tax. I think that most of the complainers on this subject are disappointed that she didn't increase taxes more. It gives them much less fodder to promote Republicanism. "Better vote Republican next time!" What a hoot!

I'm almost with you! They have this option in California! It didn't help? In a situation like this cutting off the head will not kill the beast! We need a wholesale house cleaning, one big broom?

Comment deleted because it included a spam link. --BN

What in the world do you expect from liberal democrats.We have been under their occupation for over 100 years.Now Dumbo Ears Obama wants another stimulus package.We are headed for a depression and misery and huge unemployment.No matter how high they raise taxes,those w/o jobs or scared cannot pay taxes or spend money.The revenues will not be there.Better start voting republican.They damn sure can't be this bad.

The Corrupt NC Democrat Political Machine at Work!
Just Some More - Change We Can Believe In!

Bev Perdue for President!!!

Okay, I'm for everyone being able to vent, so vent away. But tell me how increased sales tax on cosmetic surgery and limosines is going to hurt the poor. It is just one cent on food and other items, so it would be a shared tax across economic lines. Buying things is something I can control, so I probably will cut down on purchases. Never bought much anyway. That's what a "true" conservative does. Even a democrat.

Surely Bev has not read the latest NC unemployment figures.

We are in a recession, many folks cannot afford additional taxes. You cannot get blood from a turnip.

Costs must be cut to balance the budget. The is Econ 101.

Teachers, please do not get in an uproar, you are not the only state employees.

Boy - this is a real surprise ! A Democrat that wants to raise general taxes and tax the rich even more. Way to reward hard work and entreprenurial initiative, Bev !

Temporary tax increase is an oxymoron (like 'jumbo shrimp')- doesn't exist in a Democrat-controlled political environment,,,

How 'bout this for a plan, Bev - cut the pork barrel projects, period. None of them get funded this year - or any year - until our spending is less than our revenue.

As a now-unemployed taxpayer, I can't afford a 1-cent tax increase !!!

EVIDENTENTLY GOVERNOR DUMPLING JUST DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE MESSAGE THAT VOTERS HAV BEEN SENDING TO HER AN THAT BEING NO MORE NEW TAXES UNTIL THE LEGISTURE HAS FULLY INVESTIGATED EVERY STATE AGENCY ACROSS THIS STATE AN FOUND OR AT LEAST LOOK FOR SPENDING CUTS IN STATE GOVERNMENT PRIOR TO ASKING THE VOTERS OF THIS STATE TO COME UP WITH ANY MORE NEW TAXES OR IN OTHER WORDS MAKE SPENDING CUTS FIRST AN THEN TALK ABOUT A POSSIBILITY OF NEW TAXES THERE ALSO NEEDS TO BE MORE OVERSIGHT AN EXPLAININJG TO THE TAXPAYING CITIZENS OF THIS STATE AS TO WHERE THE PAST REVENUES HAVE BEEN SPENT ON ON WHAT IT WAS SPENT ON . SO FOR ME BEV NO MEANS NO PERIOD END OF CONVERSATION PERIOD NO MORE NEW TAXES

I have a total misunderstanding of the legal system, about the same as most Lawyers.

Not unlike the crushingly inequitable Education Lottery, do Lawyers have to put there leased lives on the line to go up against racketeer's torts and proven whitecollar crime?

I have a feeling letting justice slide in our state is much like watching people not stop top to pick up a penny on the ground.

How about the state insure provable claims against real taxing factions?

Check the bank records, I know where I spend money and when it is unjust.

Promoting cashing in retirement savings that has never retained a level higher than what was invested? That is a crime against investing in the USA.

Any company sucking in contract money while continuously providing no product or service? That is a, "Crime we have found to be self evident."

Dingbat, sales tax of a penny would cause more trouble than it would save.

I know you Ladies like to keep everyone busy, but this is no time for Maryanne Queen of Scott's, work us all to death logistics!

Since, according to your comments, the federal government's actions override any effect state government action, can we eliminate our state's elected officials and put their salaries back into the budget?

A continuation of spend, spend, spend. And please Bev, don't use the scare tactic of having to fire teachers, policmen, and firemen. Why don't you begin by cutting your staff in half? Or maybe eliminating the Department of Cultural Resources for the next couple of years. Let's begin to spend money ONLY on ESSENTIAL services. And if you are going to tax sin like tobacco and alcohol, let's tax prepared food and extra cent or two. A fried shoredinner at Sen. Basnight's greasy spoon ought to bring in an extra $1-or 2 a plate. Wonder how that one would go over with taxpayers?

I believe I saw an article in the N&O this morning that identified $635 million in savings. I still say this - why not sell ABC system to private party (payroll, insurance and retirement savings along with property converted to private so real estate taxes available). Do the same with the North Carolina Railroad and State Ports (state will still get economic benefit whether entity is private or public). Reduce court costs by eliminating court requirement for most traffic and minor civil penalties - just pay fine (no option to get citation reduced nor pfj). Consolidate DOT units (why so many offices in state). Sure there are other possibilities.

Until a decent effort is made to reduce government, should not simply support more tax. There is no such thing as a temporary tax.