Hagan 'concerned' by torture report

PaulTerrell
I have a question that ANYONE for these types of interrogation cannot answer [sic]. That includes PaulTerrell.

Would you support using an army of unicorns to permanently defeat terrorism if it meant that ONE innocent civilian got killed? Tough question eh?

(The lesson: pestering people with impossible hypothetical scenarios is a good sign that you don't have an argument to make)

It appears to me that they have not needed much help in recruiting members. And long before waterboarding became the central issue. Seems to me they have been rather reluctant to accept our "Western Values." I certainly can't see where they should have anything against us......except, of course, waterboarding.

Solve this problem and it's all over.

In a losing argument, always throw out the words ACORN and liberal to ease the blow. You're right that it is a complicated matter and we have seen some very simplistic thinking over the past eight years. "We are fighting them there, so we won't have to fight them here", "He tried to kill my daddy" are a few examples. Let's let our very capable military have the last word on this matter.

"That's a really good historical indicator of how you tell the good guys from the bad guys."

I believe the current liberal thinking is that the good guys are those serving with John Wayne in those real-life, honest-to-goodness, truthful war movies.

I did my military service and was certainly no hero. But I do believe this issue is a little more complicated than what to order at Starbucks. But the sentiments of this country swing back and forth just like all the rest and this is a fervent issue over which to make some political gains.

Have at it.

Evil does not exist.

Evil does exist, even evil regimes. And one of the hallmarks of an evil regime is whether or not they condone systemic torture.

That's a really good historical indicator of how you tell the good guys from the bad guys.

I think the days of torture are over. Once President Obama talks to the guy in Iran and to the leaders of the Taliban, then everything will be all right. He will tell them to be nice and then they will be nice. Everyone will live in harmony and ACORN can register them to vote. That is all we have needed, someone to tell them to be nice. All these people need is someone to smile at them. Evil does not exist. It is all a misunderstanding. Once they accept our wonderful Western values they will find happiness.

Would you support further use of these tactics if it is proven ONE life is saved? Tough question eh?

As with all unquantifiable platitudes of a meaningless nature, the only meaningful answer is the exact same question in reverse:

Would you admit torture is counter productive if it was proven to merely embolden recruitment of enemy combatants like suicide bombers?

Or historically, one could ask if the Japanese waterboarding of Air Force officer Chase J. Nielsen, one of the U.S. airmen who flew in the Doolittle raid following the attack on Pearl Harbor, was successful in saving the lives of a single Japanese civilian at Hiroshima?

I have a question that ANYONE against these types of interrogation cannot answer. That includes McCain.

Would you support further use of these tactics if it is proven ONE life is saved? Tough question eh?

I believe that there are selfless people like our troops,who give and ask nothing in return. I also believe that there are selfish people who think only about their own personal safety above all else and I feel that I know the difference between the two.

I really am more concerned about what our troops think. I hope that they think that even though they are captured that we are doing everything we can to keep them from being beheaded. We can't preempt beheading, but we can take the zeal out of their fight by not torturing. It's hard to rally people around their cause if the detainees are treated fairly.

Sen. John McCain on waterboarding.

"One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period. I can ensure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us."

What do the combatants think?

On the one hand you have the soldier who thinks, "If I am captured they will cut my head off."

On the other hand, the terrorist thinks, "If I am captured they will waterboard me."

I would probably opt for the waterboarding. Seems to be less final.

C'mon Hagan.

A simple "duhh" would have been sufficient and coveyed the same sense of understanding on your part. Sheesh.

Ahmadinejad raps Obama for shunning racism meeting

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday criticised US President Barack Obama's boycott of a United Nations racism conference, dubbing it "unhelpful."

On Monday the international racism conference in Geneva, which the United States boycotted, fell into disarray after Ahmadinejad's verbal onslaught against Israel triggered a mass walkout and furious rebukes from Western capitals.

"I should give you, the new US administration, this advice. Mr Obama came to power with the slogan of 'change', meaning the American people like the rest of the world want a change in the colonialism policy," Ahmdinejad told crowds in a speech broadcast live from Varamin, a city south of Tehran.

"Therefore it would have been imperative for him to take part in the world's most important conference of racism and denounce racism, (confirming) that the US is pursuing a changed policy in confronting racism," he added.

"But to sit at his place and condemn my remarks is not helpful in solving the issues," he added, amid the habitual slogans of "death to America and death to Israel."

Obama on Tuesday vowed that he will continue to follow "tough" direct diplomacy with Iran despite the latest anti-Israel tirade by Ahmadinejad.

Obama said after holding talks with King Abdullah II of Jordan that the Ahmadinejad's fiery rhetoric at a United Nations racism conference was "appalling" and "not helpful, it is harmful."

Do we really think that Ahmadinejad cares about torturing or the Geneva convention?

I agree - we should protect our military at all costs since they are willing to give up their lives for us.

Do you think that releasing material on how we interrogate earns any more respect on the international level?

Do you not think that the terrorist now know that we are all talk now?

I have a question for you Greenswamp...

When you meet someone - do you think that they are good or evil?

I will, thanks.

I certainly don't worry about upsetting them. It's the poor decision-making by our non-military leaders who continue to jeopardize our troops all the while saying they are supporting them. We can banter back and forth about cutting heads off and use the tired old phrases like "because they want to kill us!". But really it just makes us look more like a bunch of chickens to our military. Let's actually do something for them for once.Geneva or not, our people are in uniform, they are currently in harms way and they do not deserve to be subjected to a bunch of inflamed crazies who want to feel bolstered by the fact that we have tortured some of them.

http://www.scps.nyu.edu/export/sites/scps/pdf/global-affairs/marta-sparago.pdf

http://people.cs.uu.nl/virginia/aotp/papers/seldon-aaai-final.pdf

jockafaria.googlepages.com/DPE_2005.pdf

All good reads - It is about 75 pages or so total - so enjoy!

Saying that recruitment among terrorists has decreased is a stretch and I would love to see actual documentation on that from someone other than the Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute.

First of all, Greenswamp fails to realize that recruitment started prior to 9/11 and have decreased since we took action and "tortured."

Second of all, water boarding is not bad, in fact, most of our military special operations members endure much worse that a mental drowning. They actually drown and revive in order to not fear death or drowning. They endure sleep deprivation, physical obstacles and mental test in order to become the best of the best.

Third of all, the Geneva Convention is not applicable as their is no "side" or country involved, thus what laws are there to make such actions illegal.

So then the question becomes one of morality. You say we are torturing, I say we are getting information. The guys on Jackass do more harm than this "torture" does. Gosh - why don't you go to Iran or North Korea and see what happens when they interrogate you...you would prolly squeal like a little pig. How come no one cares what they are currently doing to our reporters in North Korea? Where is the left's outrage about the treatment of the Americans?

Liberals need to get off their moral high horse and face reality - terrorist will stop at no costs to kill us and have accepted death as a fact of reality.

Greenswamp wrote:

"The knowlege that we torture has been a great recruiting tool for terrorists. It is the gift that keeps on giving for them."

What type reaction do you get from the videos of the terrorists cutting heads off?

But we don't want to upset them do we? They might really get mad then.

Yes, I remember 9/11/2001. I also think we need to remember Pearl Harbor and the Alamo. These three things have a lot in common. But they have nothing to do with torturing detainees and thereby putting "our" men and women in danger of revenge-type torture. Do we really want that? We are so scared of another attack that we would throw our brave men and women to the wolves? The knowlege that we torture has been a great recruiting tool for terrorists. It is the gift that keeps on giving for them.

If waterboarding is that effective, why did they have to use it on him 183 times?

Paul Terrell,
Here are the results you are looking for, courtesy of Ali Soufan, an FBI supervisory special agent who oversaw elements of the Zubaydah interrogations, speaking out:

For seven years I have remained silent about the false claims magnifying the effectiveness of the so-called enhanced interrogation techniques like waterboarding. I have spoken only in closed government hearings, as these matters were classified. But the release last week of four Justice Department memos on interrogations allows me to shed light on the story, and on some of the lessons to be learned. [...]

It is inaccurate, however, to say that Abu Zubaydah had been uncooperative. Along with another F.B.I. agent, and with several C.I.A. officers present, I questioned him from March to June 2002, before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August. Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence. [...]

There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn’t, or couldn’t have been, gained from regular tactics. In addition, I saw that using these alternative methods on other terrorists backfired on more than a few occasions — all of which are still classified. The short sightedness behind the use of these techniques ignored the unreliability of the methods, the nature of the threat, the mentality and modus operandi of the terrorists, and due process.

It's a religion.

The reason the interrogation techniques worked including waterboarding is verified by one tactic. You ask the terrorist questions for which you already know the answers. It is only fair to show both sides of the story. Releasing those memos only shows the techniques not the results. Why hasn't the administration shown the results. We can only suppose from what Cheney and the CIA directors under clinton and Bush have said. The interrogation techniques work.

This is actually a true story that happened only a few years ago. Our boys found out that one of their detainees was afraid of insects, especially caterpillars. One night they opened his cell turned the light on and showed the detainee a caterpillar. The guard put the caterpillar on the cell floor, locked the door and turned the lights off. True story.
Now, is that considered "torture"? This current administration does and said so on Tuesday.

Water Boarding is not torture. I guess we should release club gitmo killers into her house and see if she is still alive the next morning.........

This pretty well confirms what most of us already knew. Hagan is a leftist dingbat.

I'd rather refer to it as pro intelligence gathering James. I respect your opinion but disagree with it.

That's the kindest word I can come up for all the anonymice in the pro-torture crowd.

That or sad. Take your pick.

Balderdash. I was opposed to the terrorists who banged our own airliners into the World Trade Center, torturing U. S. citizens with burning oil, impact, and loss of life. All this posturing about "torture" of terrorists is just plain revolting.

Senator,

I'm concerned that you're not concerned about another terrorist attack on this country. Be self-righteously indignant if you want, but keep your eye on the ball.

Hey Kay! Would you rather be waterboarded or have your fingers and limbs crushed then maybe beheaded. One detainee who was "waterboarded" 183 times survived that ordeal. 183 times! So, is waterboarding that bad? I don't think so...We obtained vital information from those interrigations that saved thousands of lives. When are you people going to wake up and fight the fight that needs to be won?

Remember 9/11/2001