Claims Dept: NRSC's 'Gold Medals'

I understand what your task is here, Ryan. I was just observing that differentiating between the Southeast and the Deep South/Gulf Coast is hardly bizarre.

Word choice matters. If you want to say we have "one of the highest rates" in the Southeast, I've got no problem with that. If you want to define the Southeast in a way that most people would agree with, same deal. If you want to say we have the highest tax rate of our bordering states, or the Atlantic South Coast or whatever, again no problem.

The goal of the Claims Department is not to evaluate who has the best tax plan etc. etc. but to determine if the claims made in an ad are true.

— RTB 

Ryan,

I know you explored many different definitions of the Southeast, and regional delineations are debatable, but JLF's use of the term "Southeast" to describe the Southern coast of the U.S. is hardly "bizarre." Plenty of folks distinguish between the Virginia-to-Florida region, called various things, and the Deep South. The two groups have distinguishable political and economic cultures (as I learned a couple of decades ago in a class taught by John Shelton Reed, as it happens). For example, check out how the election-projection site FiveThirtyEight.com groups the states:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

And you'll see that their "South Coast" grouping includes VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL and their "Gulf Coast" grouping includes the Deep South states of AL, MS, LA, and TX. They then chose to put Arkansas and Tennessee into a "Highlands" group that includes border states. I think it makes more sense to group the former into the Deep South and the latter into the Southeast, but neither choice should be seen as "bizarre."

I also don't think the issue matters all that much. If politicians said NC has "one of the highest tax burdens in the Southeast" or "South," they would be stating the truth.

Interesting point. Thanks for sharing.

— RTB 

"During those five years, the state's overall debt went from $3.5 billion to $6.9 billion"

I've never been a big fan of debt Ryan, but until the economy does a turnaround, you're going to see (most) individual states' debt burdens rising. As a matter of fact, it is (or should be) one of the components used to determine the total tax burden per state, because in the absence of an economic turnaround, those bonds will have to be covered by increasing revenue or cutting spending.

It's also how many states get away with keeping their tax burden (relatively) low compared to their neighbors. If you examine the per capita debt burden for Virginia ($2,049) and South Carolina ($2,661), you'll see they're higher than North Carolina ($1,653). These stats are from 2005 and may have changed some, but you get the picture. Some of our neighbors (have been) borrowing more than we have, and that burden rests on the shoulders of each states' citizens.

JLF knows this and chose to ignore it, which is just one more example of their partisan bent.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/state_local_govt_finances_employment/state_government_finances.html

It is bizarre. Get out a map and color in the states they're using for this analysis. What's the definition of Southeast: States that were part of the Confederacy and border the Atlantic but not the Gulf of Mexico exclusively and/or are a major capital for country music? Look, there are a number of combinations of states that they could have used that are defensible, but this one is not.

— RTB 

Language, please.

— RTB 

But your use of the word "bizarre" is more than semantics. It shows a slanted view.

Uh, maybe because Tenn. shares a border with NC but Bama does not? That Nashville and Memphis are peers that compete with Charlotte and Raleigh, Birmingham not so much?

Seriously, this vetting of ads has become laughable if all it boils down to is a reporter substituting his value judgments for those of campaign.

NC has damn high state taxes, especially on top earners. That is the big picture.

JAT

I blogged extensively about definitions of the Southeast. Obviously everyone has a different opinion on how far west and how far north to go, and you could argue all day long about the semantics.

But I don't see how you can stretch all the way to Memphis, but not include folks in Birmingham — 230 miles to the southeast. 

— RTB 

How do you figure bizarre? Louisiana is in the south and is south central.
How can you say Arkansas is southeast? Arkansas is WEST of the Mississippi. Calling Arkansas southeast is bizarre.
If Kentucky is southeast, why isn't Maryland southeast? The only stretch you go is Alabama can be considered southeast and Mississippi can be south central or southeast.

So yes NC is the highest taxed state in the southeast.
John Locke Foundation is not bizarre, but the N&O is becoming that.

Ryan, did they teach you geography in that liberal arts school?