Bill would allow guns in restaurants

You're right about the thugs...they don't care about having a permit...THAT'S WHY THEY ARE CALLED BAD GUYS! The law-abiding citizen is not a thug. Maybe you need to ask some of your friends/family if they carry. Actually, North Carolina is a "traditional' open carry state. Just watch those 'gun free' zones. When a bad guy sees those signs, he knows that by law, he has open pickins' to anyone walking around and that the law-abiding citizens have had to leave their guns in their cars. Just look at the shootings in the last couple of weeks...ALL IN GUN-FREE ZONES. I would bet you that the majority of shootings are in gun-free zones. And you know what? GUN-FREE ZONES TO THE LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN MEANS FREE-GUN ZONES TO THE BAD GUYS. Think about it!

"I guess we'll eat at home, instead of spending our money in the cross-fire of self-annointed vigilantes." -- Real_Americans_Think

The presence of legally-carried weapons has not produced an increase in gun violence anywhere else in North Carolina. Not at supermarkets, not on our highways, not at Starbucks, not at shopping malls, not in churches, not at gas stations. And not in restaurants that don't sell alcohol.

Thirty-eight states across the nation have liberal concealed weapons permits; many of them allow permitees to carry weapons into restaurants that serve alcohol. This has been going on for over a decade. Where are the reports of self-proclaimed vigilantes shooting it out across the Pizza Hut salad bar?

You're concerned about the presence of firearms around you. But for years, they've been there, and you haven't known. That's the "concealed" part of "concealed carry".

Anybody with a concealed carry permit already can't drink AT ALL while carrying. We're not talking about mixing alcohol and guns; we're talking about letting them carry concealed firearms that they carry just about everywhere else.

How is the presence of a concealed firearm, carried by someone who is not drinking, going to increase the danger to ANYBODY at restaurants like Applebee's or Olive Garden?

Surely, keeping it under the immediate control of a responsible citizen is much safer than forcing it to be left in the car, from which it can be stolen and later used in another crime.

I carry my firearm when ever I go out of town, and I put it on my belt. Sometimes it's under my shirt, sometimes not. Every now and then, some one will ask my "why do you have that gun"? Most often, I don't let people see it, so they won't feel frightened, even though I'm not the one they need to fear!

I want to get angry and emotional at such a question, but I just answer that it's my constitutional right and I'm exercising it.

I don't tell them about the four times that I've been attacked and barely escaped. Or the time I was attacked when I was out with my young son, and swore it would never happen again.

I want to tell them that you see people on drugs everywhere who'd just like to rob and kill you for a few measly bucks, but I don't.

I cannot carry it in town much, because if I drop my son off at his preschool and I have it in my car, I'm committing a felony. Even when I drive through a school zone with a gun in my car, I'm an automatic felon.

We don't have the greatest concealed carry laws in this state, but I thank God that we have them at all. The conservatives, being in the minority, had to make many concessions to the liberals, just to get that bill through, back in the early 90s.

I support this bill and I thank Sen. Brock. It's already illegal to consume alcohol and possess a firearm. I'd like to be able to carry my pistol in a restaurant just in case some nut comes in and robs the place. I might be all they have to save my life and yours.

I am responsible with my gun and it peeves me that these overly emotional liberals don't understand that legal gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Bravo to Senator Andrew Brock! He gets it. We should all drop a check in the mail to him for his next re-election campaign.

Why are so many people afraid of guns and law abiding citizens who carry them? One of us just might save your behind one day!

Carrying a gun is a heck of a lot easier than carrying a police officer around all day.

Face it
1. We know criminals don't care about the signs, they carry, and shoot, where ever they want to. Legal carriers don't.
2. We know legal carriers cannot carry with any alcohol in their system, so they would not be mixing firearms and alcohol.
3. We know that if you have a legal Concealed Carry permit, you've been investigated and had records checks, which the criminals who carry anyway would never get through.
4. We know that the sheep who have shown their "I want to legislate your life 'cause I know what's good for you, better than you do" sides won't learn, until after they become victims, and then some won't even learn then. (see "You can't teach a pig to sing...") They don't care about you, nor what you have to say. Stop trying to teach a pig to sing.

- people should not be worried about individuals with a concealed permit, the people who get these permits including myself are the responsible ones who have respect for their weapons

- the criminals you should be worried about are already carrying their weapon in places like restaurants, you just don't know about it or are too naive, these people don't have a concealed carry permit because there is a deep background check done and they don't qualify

What is this guy all about?????...Certainly, this bill would NOT encourage me to go out and buy a gun for the purpose of protecting myself in a restaurant. If he feels the need to do this...perhaps he should find a different restaurant. I have a couple of suggestions:....Margaret's Cantina at Tymberline in Chapel Hill....or Sage Cafe...just a few steps down from Margaret's.......they are the best!....and I only need to drive 2 miles.....

I see this bill as giving the thugs a pass to carry a gun into a restaurant......and do whatever....

I know nothing about this guy who is proposing this bill.....yet I have no doubt that he must be an untra-conservative R who is aligned with the NRA.

Tome I have heard of a lot of establishments like Ruby Tuesdays robbed by felons who were carrying their weapon illegally. Do you want to know that workers were murdered because they could not defend themselves. Stop being so emotional about something you know NOTHING about.You scream about honest citizens carrying a weapon legally but then scream about the long prison terms of thugs. Ypu are the problem and you are the reason the thugs are atill out on the streets robbing and killing people.

Grow up.

oops sorry- http://www.a-human-right.com/

thanks again. Ramius

FurbishLousewart , thank you for a well reasoned argument. All I ever asked was that those reading the discussion give both sides rational thought, and you obviously have done so.

Real_Americans_Think , I'm not going to respond to you, since you make no valid points. You simply spout emotion without suporting facts. (althought I do think CCW in the House and Senate would be a hoot. Yeah, fat chance there.)

I am going to make one last statement, and I will leave everyone alone. Remember any law, from speeding tickets to murder, depends entirely upon enforcement. If speeding laws are enforced, fewer people speed. If you want to have a gun free zone, be it in a school, church, courthouse, state park, where ever, you MUST be able to enforce that law. That means metal detectors, police, the works. Law abiding people do not need to be searched, criminals do. And look inside any prison- the ultimate gun free zone, with cavity searches, no privacy, etc. and you will find weapons everywhere, and attacks common. Individuals- that means YOU- are responsible for your own safety. The police have no obligation to protect you as an individual. If you feel safe going someplace unarmed (and I for one would NEVER go into any place where I did not feel safe- duh.) then great, that's your choice. But don't deny me the use of my choice of eating where I like simply because I chose to be prepared for a most unlikely emergency.

Never saw Pulp Fiction, can't stand Travolta. Sorry. :)

If anyone cares to overcome fear of firearms, check out www.a-human-right.org

Thank you for your time, Best wishes. Ramius

When the legislature is willing to allow concealed weapons in the senate and house chambers, then let them blather on about concealed weapons in restaurants and parks. This is total utter nonsense. What is the supposed problem that this would solve, other than hypothetical hysterical paranoid delusions from the far right? Why doesn't the right focus on fixing the economy, rather than increasing the firepower present in a restaurant. I guess we'll eat at home, instead of spending our money in the cross-fire of self-annointed vigilantes.

This is the least reassuring comment I've ever read on a blog item.

— RTB 

Are you kidding me? North Carolina will be the laughing stock of the nation for introducing legislation like this. Get this clown out of office!

The issue of CCW vs illegal use of firearms is not complicated for those who follow statistical data on CCW. Those that have gone through the training, reviewed the laws, and passed the screening process are those folks that society needs, which are law biding citizens who will not succumb to violence. Law breakers, and usually those of the violent nature, have taken the opportunity in victim zones (i.e., no concealed or visible weapons, allowed zones).

I for one support Mr. Brock's bill. Did you know that recently, you may not carry concealed in National Parks such as the Blue Ridge Parkway? This was a bill that was passed and one that I am happy that it did. Statistically speaking, the average citizen is better off in area where CCW are allowed. P.S. I do not have a CCW. I do not carry a CCW.

ramius, I have to admit that while I still disagree with your stance I can't really think of anymore arguments.

The best example I can think of is a situation where a normal, law-abiding citizen such as yourself with a CCW (is that the correct usage of that acronym? To me, CCW means counter-clockwise) suddenly has marital problems and divorces his wife. He meets her at a restaurant with the best intentions but things get out of hand, tempers rise, he realizes he is carrying a gun, and someone gets hurt. Obviously you could change that scenario to anything where someone's temper rises for whatever reason. Now normally they would not carry the weapon inside because they know it's illegal, whereas now they do it without thinking about it.

That's not a very good argument because you could just come back with any scenario where someone is robbing the place and is stopped by the same law-abiding citizen. Anyway... I am all for the right bear arms and I am all for the right to conceal them; the first time I ever saw an automatic weapon up close was a few years ago in Ecuador and I have to admit it really scared me (it was being carried by a soldier). So by all means, conceal them.

But I'm still saying that bringing the weapons into a restaurant just won't help anybody. You're not going to be in there for very long. ... Like I said I can't really think of anymore arguments.

Anyone else reminded of Pulp Fiction?

Now the DURHAM PoPo chief wants NC to pass legislation to prohibit any ammunition purchase unless you have a concealed carry permit.

Somebody needs to challenge Durham PoPo on this BS NOW!!!

thats what he's trying to DO Omegaman! Wake up sheeple, the rEVOLution builds!

http://www.nationwidechicagoteaparty.com

http://www.HowObamaGotElected.com

Will Rawleigh being having one of the simultaneous TEA parties at the Capitol on Friday at NOON??? Time to organize!

Scared lilly livered democrackkks who control things probably wont allow this but KUDOS to Brock for trying to break the binding! I just got two gun permits and will be getting MY concealed carry permit soon! Everyone I know is beefing up on their guns and ammunition, which has gone up about 400% and keeps selling!

I think concealed weapons would more appropriately be carried during the services in the evangelical churches.

Great! Restaurant owners must be thrilled. Just what they need - another reason for people to cook at home.

Ramius - I think some people fail to understand that most important part of your statement...

Think, people, think. Your emotions will get you in serious trouble.

I have had a CCW permit since I was old enough...it is the thing to do out east. Never once had a discharge mistakenly and have had to show it one time in my life and it saved my life.

If people are worried about people getting drunk and shooting off their gun...they need to get a grip...or perhaps we should outlaw steak knives as well...they are dangerous...

Seriously - ramius good points and well said.

FurbishLousewart, thank you for responding in a logical, reasoned manner. I enjoy debating issues with people who will do so in such a manner, rather than emotional tirades.

As to your arguments, I will try to respond in kind. Your cows vs. sharks argument would be valid if the mere presence of an object caused an effect. It does not. I would point out that 40 states already have concealed carry laws, and the bloodshed predicted by the anti-gun crowd has not only failed to happen, the opposite is true: violent crime has dropped- dramatically- in every state that passed CCW. If you want to find violent crime, look to anti-gun havens like New York City, Washington DC, Chicago, etc.

No, they aren't talking gun confiscation in this instance- but they are talking, constantly, about further restrictions. With the most anti-gun congress and president in history in office, you'll understand why those of us who follow the law are worried about restrictions that by nature only affect those of us who obey the law.

Apologies for the 'personal accounts,' but I think they do illustrate the points made. Incidently I was not a 'night watchman' per se, but a 22 year old kid at the time, watching the boiler in my family's warehouse. Those of you who make the arguement that only 'highly trained professionals' like the police should have guns, have never seen these professionals shoot in a match against regular citizens. Most police training now has nothing to do with firearms. Not criticizing here, just stating facts.

Finally, concealed carry has been legal in eating establishments for a long time now. Chances are you've sat next to a CCW holder in one of these places. It didn't bother you because you didn't know. We look just like you, we are polite, often professionals,(I am) and law abiding. We need to focus on the real problem- criminals- and stop having panic attacks over things that enhance safety, instead of making it easy for the criminals to know where to look for easy pickings.

Oh, and I'm glad you've never been in a restaurant that got robbed. Chances are it will stay that way, I hope so. But not everyone has the luxury of eating in nice places at regular hours. Truck drivers, cab drivers, newspaper delivery people, etc. often have fewer choices and more potential for problems. Let's give them the option of protecting themself if needed.

People who carry concealed weapons are not allowed, by law, to consume alcohol while they are carrying their weapon. And if people wouldn't completely freak out - we would carry them openly.

The bill is well intentioned but it is badly flawed. The biggest problem with the bill you ask? Anytime you potentially mix alcohol with firearms somebody is going to get killed.

The average citizen wouldn't even think about drinking and carrying a firearm. But whenever you have a place serving alcohol, the potential for fights are higher. And it is only a matter of time befor Murphy's Law kicks in and a fight erupts at a place serving alcohol. Then either the person with the firearm is going to lose control of the weapon, or the person who uses the firearm will have had alcohol in their system. Even if it was just one drink, this is still an alcohol related incident and the person who uses the weapon is going to end up in jail. Regardless of the circumstances or intentions.

If a business fears for it's customer's safety. Then they need to hire security. I have been in more than a few restaurants that had either on duty or off duty officers guarding the place. I would rather see the business spend money for security officers than have patrons bring in firearms.

Mixing guns and alcohol is just as bad as mixing driving and alcohol! What's this guy going to propose next - make it illegal to chew on a toothpick and walk at the same tme.

Get real Senator Brock and look for legislation that's going to keep citizens alive not help them into the ground faster!!!

But wouldn't it be wonderful if we could stop them before they take out the whole place - I definitely support that!

"The reasons they have gunmen go into these areas"

What?

We have a problem with gunmen invading restaurants? And the solution is to encourage people to bring their guns with them when they go out drinking?

If the point is to be a deterant to the "gunmen" invasion, shouldn't the good guy guns be plainly visible, not concealed?

Language, please.

— RTB 

I would stop going to restaurants all together. I distrust all gun owners. I do not allow my kids to spend any time in a house where there is a gun. The more educated someone is the less likely they are to fall for this wild west mentality. I know you gun owners don't need me and I certainly don't need you. I hope if this trash passes that the restaurants that allow this will be identified much like "Non-Smoking." Maybe if the politicians stop pissing people off so much, they would not have to worry about protecting themselves in public.

xxx

This is one of the worst pieces of legislation I've seen in a long time. Not a chance in you know what the legislature will pass this.

I'm all for it. I just went through the CC process, and have NO PROBLEM at all with properly permitted citizens carrying a weapon almost anywhere they please.

Those who are permitted have had 8+ hours of classroom instruction on the laws around the used of deadly force, gun safety, and have demonstrated competence with the gun via target shooting tests. They have been background checked/printed and paid ~$200 to comply with these requirements. They are law-respecting, competent citizens and pose zero threat to you, unless you choose to threaten to another's life.

Hope it passes... It's the unlicensed idiots that you have to worry about, who already have weapons and little respect for law.

Are people going on shooting sprees in schools and malls really able to think about the potential of patrons having guns? I think in most cases the perpetrator is past that point.

I don't think anyone is worried about YOU, ramius.

You said you stopped two breaking and enterings... as a NIGHT WATCHMAN. That's fine, that sounds like it was your job at the time to do that.

Those things you're more likely to be killed by are not outlawed in any fashion, so I don't see how that helps your argument. It's like the fact that you're more likely to be attacked by a cow than a shark; yeah, it's true, but that's because you're around cows more often than sharks.

Those of us against this are not talking about taking your guns away, we're talking about not bringing them into a restaurant. Nothing you said here except "Don't be afraid of guns" has anything to do with concealed weapons being in a restaurant.

Quit running off personal accounts, we all believe that you are an oustanding member of society who carries a gun and you're friggen Captain America. Let me counter your personal accounts with my own: I have never been in a restaurant that got robbed, so therefore I see no reason for guns to be allowed in them.

You need to check your facts before posting. Tolerance for CCW and Alcohol is zero. No drinks, period. Most people do NOT die from accidental discharge from weapons, and I have heard of quite a few resturants being robbed- check your local paper.

Facts: you are 35 times more likely to die from drowning in a swimming pool than being shot. You are more likely be killed by stabbing, blunt instrument (baseball bat, pipe, etc.) than firearms. But those stories don't make the news because (a) they are too common, and (b) they do not fit the liberal bias of the news.

Again, 'average joe' doesn't have a CCW. You have to have training, background checks, etc. as I noted earlier. Suggestion: take a CCW class when you get a chance, see what it's like, and report back. You might learn something.

The save one life argument is self defeating also: more than 2 million- that's MILLION- instances of lives being saved each year are reported by the safe use of a firearm. Almost always without a shot being fired- the mere presence of a firearm usually stops the violence. Many more go unreported- I personally have stopped 2 B & E's in progress while working as a night watchman. Does safeguarding my life mean less than yours?

If my weapon is stolen from my car, it is no longer in safe, trained hands. It is, by definition, in a criminals hands. How does that make anyone safer? Btw I have carried legally for over 28 years, and have never had a negligent discharge or other problem. I have, on the other hand, assisted dozens of stranded motorists, safeguarded property, sat through one rape trial (care to guess that young ladies stance on CCW now?) and probably a lot of other things most of the gun-fearing crowd would never do. Why? they think only the ones paid by the government are professional enough to do anything. I have news for you: some of my worst students were law enforcement officers. Truely miserable safety skills and marksmanship.

Think,people, think. Your emotions will get you in serious trouble.

To VickieJ40>>>>If your brother is actually on mental disability, the conceal carry permit background check would prevent him from getting a permit. I have been through the process. A full 8 hour course is required before filling out the forms and fingerprinting. The certificate for the course, the form and the fingerprints are then used for both a local check and an FBI check on the fingerprints. The main reason I got my permit was so I could throw my firearms into the car or cab of my truck without worrying about locking everything up. Many people are getting their permits for this reason. The law is so restrictive on where one can carry a concealed weapon that I just don't do it--I may change my to do list and absently walk into a bank or a place that serves alcohol, or a place that charges for admission, or a school grounds and then I would be committing a felony. Without the conceal carry permit, if I have my pistol unloaded and in a case under a seat out of reach, it is still considered a violation. But, if it is sitting on the dashboard in plain view, and I have a standard gun permit, then it is not. The Tom, Dick and Harry you are worried about are not going to sit through an 8 hour course and pony up the fees for a conceal carry permit, let alone subject themselves to a thorough background check. But, they will still carry a gun and that should worry you.

To VickieJ40>>>>If your brother is actually on mental disability, the conceal carry permit background check would prevent him from getting a permit. I have been through the process. A full 8 hour course is required before filling out the forms and fingerprinting. The certificate for the course, the form and the fingerprints are then used for both a local check and an FBI check on the fingerprints. The main reason I got my permit was so I could throw my firearms into the car or cab of my truck without worrying about locking everything up. Many people are getting their permits for this reason. The law is so restrictive on where one can carry a concealed weapon that I just don't do it--I may change my to do list and absently walk into a bank or a place that serves alcohol, or a place that charges for admission, or a school grounds and then I would be committing a felony. Without the conceal carry permit, if I have my pistol unloaded and in a case under a seat out of reach, it is still considered a violation. But, if it is sitting on the dashboard in plain view, and I have a standard gun permit, then it is not. The Tom, Dick and Harry you are worried about are not going to sit through an 8 hour course and pony up the fees for a conceal carry permit, let alone subject themselves to a thorough background check. But, they will still carry a gun and that should worry you.

Oh waiter, oh waiter....About my overcooked steak.....

and yes jgogan, he IS a GOP'er...

If this bill passes, the Representatives and Senators who voted for it should be held responsible for the increase in deaths that will occur. Statistics overwhelmingly show that alcohol and guns do not mix. Most people die from accidental discharge of weapons rather than from a robbery attempt. Do we really want someone with a loaded gun in a restaurant with our families, our children? No matter that an individual has received a license, I'm not sure I want to trust the judgment of some Joe off the street who has had no professional training in dealing with a crisis. How do you know how this person will respond in such a stressful situation? When is the last time you heard about a Pizza Hut, a Ruby Tuesday's, being held up by a gunman?

In response to the gentleman who wants to take his weapon into the restaurant for fear of it being stolen from his car, I would counter that the tragic loss of one life far outweighs the loss of one's weapon.

Are you kidding me!!!! So my looney brother who is on a mental disability and who has a gun permit,can waltz up in a restaurant with a gun!NO Way!* Vickie

Maybe you should drop your brother as next of Kin and move on to another Taco Bell restaurant. And stop blaming Tom, Dick and Harry for putting up a sign in their front yard that says "Warning! The owner of this property does not believe in the 2 amendment"

I'm afraid the connection between cigarettes and firearms is lost on me...

Oh, btw, I'm not asking for the chance to use my firearm in a resturant- I ask people not to smoke near me when possible, and I promise to keep my firearm concealed as well. Is that what you meant? :)

And PS to my earlier comment, you Don't have to trust "every tom, dick and harry' with a firearm. a CCW involves multiple safety classes, a police background check (local), fingerprinting which is sent to the FBI (national background check) and even a mental health background check- all of which the applicant pays for, to the tune of nearly $200 up front. This process is repeated every 5 years, and any violation of the law- anything more serious than a minor speeding ticket- will get your permit revoked. I ask you again- do you think for one instance that a career criminal is going to even think about applying for a permit? No, criminals, by definition, do not obey the law. Think, people, think. Stop having an emotional response to a serious question. If you do not feel safe around firearms, go hang around gun-free zones. You know, like Virginia Tech, Columbine High School, etc. All of those had serious signs up proclaiming no guns allowed. Worked out real well, didn't it?

Are we expected to use the gun to shoot the smokers?

No way this is getting passed. End of story.

Well here's another one... you've got to be kidding me...

Who is this idiot lawmaker?

I only hope they will also allow me to carry a concealed weapon into the hospital. Although when wearing a paper gown it is difficult to conceal the weapon, or anything else.

Guns, cigarettes, what is the difference? They'll both kill you.

Vickiej40, my sympathies to you if your brother has a mental problem. Unfortunately if what you say is true, I doubt seriously that having a permit or not having a permit would prevent him from breaking the law, be it carrying in a cafe or some other place.
IF your brother has mental problems, a simple phone call to the local police would get his CCW revoked instantly. Why haven't you done something about him if he has a serious problem instead of making emotional tirades here? And why should his problem prevent me, a safe, sane, decent person from protecting the lives of those I love? As it stands now, if I am on the way to teaching a gun safety class, and want to eat at Pizza hut on the way, I have to leave my firearm in the car, where it could be stolen by those who do not obey the law. Do you think they would pay heed to the sign that says 'no weapons' when they show up to rob that same Pizza Hut?
Statisticaly, concealed carry holders are less likely to commit a criminal act than even sworn police officers. Think about that. And make no mistake, criminals DO look for those 'disarmed victim zone' signs when looking for a place to rob. If you want to solve the problem, start with career criminals, not those of us who are trying- against all odds- to protect good people like you, who are unfortunately misinformed on the subject.

Well, the article didn't say, but I'm guessing that idiot legislator is a Republican ...... They increasingly seem to be good for at least three "are you kidding me?!?!" a day, lately.