newsobserver.com projects - online sunshine - Comments

Funny.

Anglico — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:16:08 -0400

My most sincere apology shows up with a dang typo. I bet the Dome did it.

(JUST KIDDING!)

Semantic justice.

t

Isaac136 — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:47:57 -0400

No, see, if he really *mean* it he'd have added the "t" to "restrain."

Thanks.

Anglico — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:41:08 -0400

Sorry for the mismanagement of the post over at my place. I really wasn't trying to antagonize . . .

The insight you provided was really helpful. I haven't worked in the mainstream media for 30 years, so my sense of how things have evolved in the brave new world is pretty sketchy.

You're a model of restrain and thoughtfulness. Seriously.

James

PS I mean that as a compliment, just in case you think I'm being snarky.

See how easy it is?

Anglico — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:25:30 -0400

Extending conversations is a piece of cake. See?

James Protzman

PS Unless you know exactly what you're looking for, detailed reporting of bills in the General Assembly is awfully hard to make sense of. I'd support a comprehensive overhaul of North Carolina State Government Online. It's important to draw a distinction between simply having information available and having information that's understandable and easy to use. I'm guessing most legislators would say "we're transparent as can be."

Not.

Re: Welcome to Sunshine Week

ryanteaguebeckwith — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:59:53 -0400

I don't know. Making e-mail that available would probably spell the end of it. After all, how much would you write in an e-mail if you knew it would be instantly available on the Internet?

I think they would start finding other ways to communicate.

There's a bit of an Itchy and Scratchy competition with public records between reporters and politicians, so I'm leery of the lure of utopian proposals that would supposedly end it once and for all.

— RTB

Re: Uncle Lawton

Proctor — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 01:22:03 -0400

Are you serious? Was Lawton Chiles Kay Hagan's uncle? If that's true, that would be a news story in and of itself.

Lawton Chiles pulled a William B. Umstead Gubernatorial Detour in Florida: he got elected to the U.S. Senate before becoming governor as did Bill Umstead in North Carolina between the 1930s and the 1950s.

The campaign hike across the Sunshine State by "Walkin' Lawton" Chiles inspired many other similar efforts, including some which met with success at the polls such as the U.S. Senate campaign of Lamar Alexander of Tennessee.

This writer can thank the late Sen. and Gov. Chiles for helping me more fully appreciate the "Florida connection" to the mountains of Western North Carolina. Seeking to follow in "Walkin' Lawton" Chiles' footsteps, so to speak, by hiking across North Carolina from Manteo to Murphy in 1977 for the U.S. Senate campaign of 1978, upon reaching the Blue Ridge and Smoky Mountains in the western end of the state, I soon learned that a lot of our "mountain folks" were actually Floridians enjoying their hilltop vacation homes here in the Tar Heel State.

If Kay Hagan and the other 2008 senatorial candidates "meet and greet" some Floridians in and around Brevard and Western North Carolina this year, they should try to persuade our Sunshine State campers to switch their voter registration over to North Carolina if they qualify residentially. Unless of course, they're still trying to figure out how to get all the votes counted among their fellow Floridians who are wrangling with their own voting procedures from Tallahassee to Key West.

At any rate, venturing from the sunny flatlands of Florida to the mountains of North Carolina is hardly a recent tradition since the explorer Hernando de Soto made such a trek en route to his eventual destination at the Mississippi River between 1539-41. Of course, De Soto wasn't exactly whistlestopping for votes on his journey back in the 16th Century. Who knows, maybe he was shopping for a Christmas tree along the way.

If Kay Hagan does win election to the U.S. Senate from North Carolina this year, she won't be able to start out using the name "Senator Kay" in the tradition of "Senator Sam" Ervin because some folks might ask: "Which one?" You see, there's already a gal named Kay in the Senate from the Lone Star State of Texas.

David McKnight

Re: Welcome to Sunshine Week

FFC1304 — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:43:11 -0400

are the democrat candidates for 'governor' advocating legislative webcasting?

Re: Welcome to Sunshine Week

JoelCraigRaupe — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:58:33 -0400

Trying to remember the first time I heard "Government in the Sunshine," I remembered that, while living in Florida in the early 70's, I watched the debate between Governor Claude Kirk and Drug Store magnate Jack Eckert.

That was the time I first heard it mentioned, and though I'm certain Claude Kirk wouldn't have come up with such an idea, I think perhaps it was Eckert who first endorsed this as a campaign slogan.

It was, of course, taken up much later by Lawton Chiles (Kay Hagan's uncle) and many others, but not with the familiar ring that original slogan had in the context of "The Sunshine State."

In the Information Age, it seems a bit silly not to start with campaign reporting, if this is to be an incremental and experimental process, with the daily burden of committee treasurers being required to provide daily updates of all contributions, or "full disclosure of the complete money trail."

As onerous a burden has been the new requirements made of Treasurers for campaigns, which used to be mostly an honorary position, now under threat of perjury, perhaps that sort of job out to become one for professionals in some way.

Regardless, any additional transmutation of paper into digital documentation, that can then be more easily placed on the Internet for North Carolinians to see, would make the staff at SBOE's have to have an even greater backlog of information to accurately place online.

Any reason for the $10,000 bottom for contracts? I missed that debate. What about the $800 million spent on (depending on who you ask) 6500 to 8000 Non-Governmental Organizations?

It's like the new debate over policy concerning the deletion of items in the "Sent Items" Email folders before back-up is performed. Unlike the In Box, there doesn't seem to be sufficient reason for this to be a problem in terms of storage capacity. Terabytes of flash storage can be bought for relatively low cost. There doesn't seem to be a reason to delete even ephemeral Sent Items.

Forgetting about the InBox, should every state employees' Sent Items folder become available on the net? Wow.

If cameras and microphones had a effect upon behavior, as they have the US Senate and House since the 1970's, imagine what making public Email available online.

Re: Pittenger: Webcast legislature

dahedgehog — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:08:27 -0500

It would certainly be a move welcomed by the State's insomniacs. Floor debates will put you to sleep with the quickness.

Re: Pittenger: Webcast legislature

alman — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 10:20:30 -0500

Webcasting should be very simple to implement. I suspect the junk we read about will be less if cameras are on. However, don't be surprised if the sly ones doe their dirty work "off camera."

Re: Pittenger: Webcast legislature

FFC1304 — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 19:10:10 -0500

Webcasting the goings on there will GREATLY IMPROVE TRANSPARANCY!!! ITs maybe the most needed thing in Rawleigh. Put it ON! Should be easily installable by May 13TH!!! Get with it, democrats, dont wait on Mr. Pittenger!

Re: A YouTube for state government

rossreport — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:39:56 -0500

Great idea.
But as I've said before. Not just the main chambers.
Having the hearing rooms online and in the sunshine is key.

kmr

Re: More on thinking of the user

ryanteaguebeckwith — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:28:29 -0500

I think that's a false dichotomy.

A document dump that consists entirely of scanned PDFs from a Xerox machine is transparent, but not usable.

An online searchable database of that same information is transparent—and usable.

— RTB

Re: More on thinking of the user

bnartist — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:19:58 -0500

I agree with you Ryan. There is however a difference between usability and transparency. A document dump is transparent, an executive summary is usable. Transparency requires objectivity while usability requires more subjectivity. And usability for one user is not the same as usability for a large set of diverse users and stakeholders. Usability usually involves making complexities invisible to the average user.

The ability to slice and dice information so that it is both user friendly and transparent requires an expansion of tools and services that subscribers to the shrunken head theory of government are usually unwilling to support.

Privatization may lead to more usability but hardly more transparency. Open bidding laws may be clunky but they are transparent. A great deal of bureaucracy is simply an accretion of individual ideas of usability, transparency and accountability.

The example of Google is apt. Google is extremely usable and its algorithms are invisible but as an organization it is decidedly opaque as recent dealings with North Carolina have demonstrated.

Re: More on thinking of the user

ryanteaguebeckwith — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:17:52 -0500

Fair enough.

That's why they should be intregrated—either by linking or through a separate agency/contractor/webmaster who ensures things are updated.

To the user, it doesn't matter who does what, it just matters that you can find it easily.

— RTB