newsobserver.com projects - Smoking ban heads to governor - Comments

I'll tell you when the line's been crossed

CutterJoe — Thu, 14 May 2009 10:36:49 -0400

When a businessman can't provide a non-essential business where his patrons are offered the opportunity to enjoy an otherwise legal activity and so he must go out of business. Infringes on rights, hurts the tax base, hurts the job market, and hurts businesses. I have supported all anti-smoking rules up until this point because I do believe non-smokers shouldn't be FORCED to inhale 2nd hand smoke. As I've said, I'm an occasional smoker and the wife a non-smoker, I DO want the right to choose when and where I'm exposed to smoke, but this law crosses that line in a big way and tells me I can't choose when and where I want to be exposed to smoke!

Gosh

CutterJoe — Thu, 14 May 2009 10:20:51 -0400

I'm not suggesting that we should smoke in Chucky Cheese. In fact, that's my point. They don't allow smoking already! The House version was better than the Senate version, but both versions were over the line. There’re no shortage of establishments that don't allow smoking and all have entirely separate areas by law. I occasionally smoke and the wife never. We never smell smoke when we go out to eat and only do so in bars because those are the bars I want to go to. She doesn't like smoke, but all of her friends smoke, so she goes to those places do. Now none of her friends will be out in those establishments, so neither will she. Where's the line drawn? As I've pointed out, I'm forced to ingest poisons I don't want just by breathing, yet I can't have a business that allows folks to smoke if they want to. If I have the right to patronize a restaurant without having to breathe smoke, don’t I also have a right to drink some sweet tea in that restaurant without having to ingest corn syrup?! That stuff is retched and as unhealthy as 2nd hand smoke. It’s not like they’ll let me bring in my own tea. Where's the line? When can I decide what goes into my body, and when do I have to submit to the whims of others?

Appreciate your enthusiasm

Gosh — Thu, 14 May 2009 08:29:34 -0400

But CutterJoe, let's not be as absolutist as the abolitionist.

The bottom line is the House version was right, the Senate version (about to be signed) is wrong.

I never wanted to smoke around kids in Chuck E Cheese. I don't understand why families want to eat in The Foxy Lady.

Corporate lobbyists killed reason. The people lost.

Did I mention the effects of fried foods?!

CutterJoe — Thu, 14 May 2009 08:21:34 -0400

Is this going to mean an end of fried foods? Have y'all ever worked in restaurants or bars full of deep fat fryers? What are the health consequences of breathing THAT oily smoke day in day out?! Not to mention the costs to our society as a result of higher medical and insurance costs, lost productivity, etc. that comes from fried foods and obesity.

More lost tax $

CutterJoe — Thu, 14 May 2009 08:09:02 -0400

I, and many folks like me, will now be doing much more of our drinking, smoking, and socializing in certain notorious private establishments not affected by this law and which serve liquor that's never taxed. If Bev continues in her stupidity and passes her tax on smokes I suspect a burgeoning black market in cigs that never see the tax man. NC has a long and storied history of responding to the government over-reaching it's authority with private, illicit entrepreneurship. It’s not like the state is going to have the revenues to crack down on such enterprises.

And..

CutterJoe — Thu, 14 May 2009 07:45:28 -0400

What about the known harmful effects of industrial farming to society and especially farm workers? Or the effects of large animal farm operations on all of us even though we don’t all choose to eat meat. And then there're the effects of the chemical/gas releases in offices, bars, restaurants, and homes from carpet, paneling, etc. Shouldn’t they at least be required to warn us of the amounts and dangers of the levels of those we are forced to breath whenever we go into a building? Where does this thinking take us? What about the effects of the consequenses of our trash disposal on communities that have no choice but to suffer them? How about the increasing amount of microwaves bombarding us every moment of every day? These are things none of us has control over as individuals, and you're whining because you think you have the RIGHT to go into EVERY bar or restaurant and not breath second hand smoke?! Hukkah bars should be illegal because you don't smoke but may want to eat there?! You'll be competing for fewer jobs against more folks (folks who smoke so were happy to work in smoking establishments) when some of these businesses begin closing. Ridiculous and fascist. And especially stupid in this economy. With decisions like this, you'll be lucky to find a job no matter how dangerous!

We do smoke tailpipes, every time we breath!

CutterJoe — Thu, 14 May 2009 07:32:52 -0400

Despite the dramatic drop in smoking over the years, cases of athsma and emphysema continue to rise, especially here on the east coast where the cummulative effects of this pollution increase our end of week rain chances by nearly 20%! This is due to the ever increasing amout of pollution in our air which I don’t have a choice not to breath. Between the vehicle exhaust, chemical emissions, manufacturing emissions, power plant emissions, and the endless residues of air traffic raining down on our heads (check out the levels of barium being measured after heavy days and ITS effects!), the cummulative effect is to be living in a room full of cigarette smokers. I don’t have a choice there.

re: got2reply

CutterJoe — Thu, 14 May 2009 07:27:42 -0400

Of course you have a right to visit bars and restaurants, but not ANY or ALL restaurants. In the mean time, business owners have lost their rights to cater to the customers of their choice. If we are going to require ALL jobs to be safe for EVERYONE, then lets do that (impossible), but the fact is you don’t HAVE to work in a smoking establishment. You choose to. You can get a job in a coal mine, or chemical plant, or as a farm worker. In America you’re FREE to work anywhere you want or start your own business, perhaps one catering to non-smokers. It’s hardly just that I’ve chosen to exercize my freedom to control my working conditions by working for myself, yet when I step out to pick my produce to take to the farmer’s market, I will be breathing the cummulative toxic wastes of other businesses and individuals and there’s not thing one I can do about it. I and the growing number of other occassional smokers like me should have the right to frequent establishments that choose to cater to our desire to go out and have a smoke with our drinks and enjoy some entertainment, and the business owners SHOULD have the right to run their businesses. You have a right not to patronize those businesses.

NoNewGunControl

CutterJoe — Thu, 14 May 2009 07:21:34 -0400

The mistake we keep repeating is that we only get a choice between a left-wing fascist or a right-wing fascist. I wouldn’t have voted for Purdue if her apponent hadn’t run so far right of his record as mayor of Charlotte to appease the lunitic fringe of that party. I guess I should have voted for the Libritarian candidate even though I didn’t agree with many of his views either. As far as Obama goes, I can never really regret that choice as I had no other. McCain’s obvious mental unstableness, and the fascist rallies he was running during the campaign where he ran as a neocon instead of the centrist his record suggests precluded my ever having an option to vote for him. One mistake I will never repeating is letting the neocons back in power. Hopefully, if voters decide to turn out the Democrats, they won’t be stupid enough to turn around and just put the bigger idiots back in control. It’s time for freedom from control of the 2 factions of the same fascist party system.

Lobbyists win!

Gosh — Thu, 14 May 2009 06:54:57 -0400

So this version will apply to private clubs, cigar bars, strip clubs, pool halls, everything right?

No more common sense exemptions because the restaurant industry lobbyists for Chuck E Cheese didn't want to have to compete with pool halls and The Foxy Lady?

That's just sad, especially since so many think this is populist do-goodery when it's really just special interest manipulation.

Outback argued that allowing smoking in The Pink Pony somehow provided an unfair "competitive advantage" over their own Blooming Onion?

It makes no sense, yet the Senate bought it.

Lobbyists for Applebee's: 1
People: 0

Re: Smoking ban heads to governor

nikkotg — Thu, 14 May 2009 00:22:19 -0400

Congrats NC legislature. It only took you 20 years longer than most of the country to get a clue!

Re: Smoking ban heads to governor

Russell123 — Wed, 13 May 2009 23:39:11 -0400

If it was not for tobacco, North Carolina would be South Carolina without Charleston. Too bad there are not any statistics that show how this invasive government action reduces smoking. Once again legislators appease organizations rather than taking the common-sense approach. Those organizations maybe able to write a check but they won't be able to make up for the votes lost back in the district.

Re: Smoking ban heads to governor

NoNewGunControl — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:40:15 -0400

There is "Hope" for the future. More and more every day, I hear people say they are sorry they voted for both Obama and Perdue and wish they could undo it all, but there will be another election in 2010. Now there's some Change We Can Believe In.
It's like having Jimmy Carter all over again. First Hope...then disillusion...then despair....then an awakening.....then one term and done. It's amazing how people who don't understand the failures of the past are doomed to repeat them.
If those two along with the help of people like Pelosi and Reid don't totally destroy us, we may have another attack of stupid in another 3o or 40 years.

Re: Smoking ban heads to governor

got2reply — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:18:59 -0400

Some people have to work where ever they can find a job and they should not be exposed to 2nd hand smoke.

For the rest of us, I have as much of a right to eat in restaurants and go to bars as smokers do. You want to kill yourself by smoking, go ahead, but you do not have the right to kill me with your 2nd hand smoke. Have you ever taken care of someone who is dying from emphysema? Watched as the person smothers to death? Taken care of someone dying of lung cancer? Perhaps you should, you may then admit to your own addiction and get some help.

THANK YOUs are in order for the Senate, House, and Gov. Perdue.

Next step, work on banning outdoor pollution. Gee, that could include banning smoking outdoors in public places. Thank you for the idea.

Re: Smoking ban heads to governor

davet — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:15:09 -0400

Thank God! North Carolina enters the ranks of smart states.

I can't wait until this is law.

Filthy, cancer-causing garbage be damned!

Smoking ban heads to governor

bniolet — Wed, 13 May 2009 15:51:26 -0400

The House narrowly agreed to the Senate version of a smoking ban, sending to the governor a bill that would ban smoking in bars and restaurants.

"This bill has come a long way," said Rep. Hugh Holliman, the House Democratic leader and champion of the bill. "It's had a much debate as any bill has ever had in this state."

Gov. Beverly Pedue is expected to sign the bill into law. It's a law that might have been unthinkable just a few years ago in a state built on the tobacco industry.

The bill was approved 62 to 56. The original House version allowed smoking only in businesses that prohibited anyone under 18 from entering the premises. That exception generally excluded all bars from the ban. Restaurants complained that the exception would give bars a competitive advantage.

But the version adopted by the Senate removed the section of the bill that applied the ban to all workplaces.

Holliman said the compromise was "probably as good as you're going to do on a bill that's as far reaching as this." He held open the possibility that he would take another run at all workplaces later.

Opponents said the bill was an infringement on personal rights.

"This is about the freedom and rights to do on your property what you see fit," said Rep. David Lewis, a Dunn Republican.

Update: In a statement, Gov. Beverly Perdue called it "an important and historic day for North Carolina."

"I have vigorously supported efforts to reduce and eliminate smoking and this bill will help more North Carolina citizens avoid the dangers of secondhand smoke," she said.