newsobserver.com projects - Poll: Hagan 49, Dole 42 - Comments

The Socialism Lie and the Right Wing Sell-off to China

Real_Americans_Think — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:58:22 -0400

It is pretty amazing to have a blithering idiot like "Unbiased101" calling me a "moron." If you don't agree with me, then just say so - no need for the name calling, you inane mindguard.

As for your definition of socialism, the key aspect is a theory or system of social organization which advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. [you continue to be a moron at this point in my rebuttal].

As any moron, even yourself, can see, "the community as a whole" refers to the government (communism is the version where the government fades away). Under Bush/Cheney/McCain, the government is buying equity shares in banks, and is making loan guarantees to the auto industry, and artificially providing price supports to agriculture, etc. This leads to government control of the means of production. Hence, the Republicans are Socialist (you blithering idiot). McCain is a Socialist, and endorses Socialist economic policies.

As for tax plans, Obama and McCain may differ on tax rates, but they are using the same basic tax structure. So, if you call one a socialist, then the other is also a socialist. The difference is that Obama puts more emphasis on cutting a break for the little guy (who has gotten reamed for years under Reaganomics, while the government has made give-aways to the wealthy), and McCain puts more emphasis on a shift in wealth from the lower and middle class to the extremely wealthy (more of the same 'tinkle' down voodoo Reaganomics). So, McCain's plan actually leads the rich to become proportionally even more rich. You will find similar situations in many banana republics, in which a very small portion of the population control the vast majority of wealth, and there is a larger working underclass. McCain is taking us down that path.

The extremely disingenuous part of this debate is that Obama will not CONFISCATE the income of rich people. You'd think with all your jaw-flapping bleating that Obama was proposing a 100% tax rate for the rich. All he proposes is to roll the tax rates back to the pre-Bush deficit exploding tax cuts - i.e from 35 to 38 percent. Oh my - how will they ever survive? I don't recall you all bleating about socialism in 1992 when we had strong economic growth, Federal surpluses, and a rosy economic outlook under Clinton.

Furthermore, the real wealth transfer has been the market meltdown, which has wiped out the savings, retirement, and home equity, and proportionally affects the middle class more severely than the very wealthy.

McCain also proposes to tax health benefits. Obama proposes a system in which you can keep your existing health insurance and those who don't have any at least have a chance to get some. How evil. I guess Repugs want to see lower income Americans suffer - not realizing we all pay for it by having to subsidize the higher costs of emergency care and preventable illnesses. This is another attempt to maximize the difference between the haves and have nots, which is politically unstable in the long-run. Again, you're clearly a moron.

Any way you slice it [you moronic idiotic], the vast majority of people are far worse off under Bush and McCain.

If any of you care about national security, you should be worried about our economic weakness and skyrocketing Federal national debt and trade deficits. These make our country very vulnerable to growing economic power of China, which holds a large equity share in our country. So, Republicans are effectively selling our country to the only other potential superpower, just to make an extra buck over working Americans. Furthermore, you are transferring control of the means of production in our country to an unfriendly nation. Pretty shameful.

So, if any Kool-Aid drinking is to occur, it is you, Mr. Dunce, who should be imbibing. In the meantime, we will not be fooled by your lies and distortions. I hope the Socialist McCain will change his tune so. Otherwise, I fear he is going to lose this election. And I hope you've learned your lesson about name-calling, idiot.

Real Americans Think

Re: Poll: Hagan 49, Dole 42

billay — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:59:00 -0400

It's just this kind of idiocy that gave us 8 years of George Bush. Time to head back to pasture, sheep.

Re: Poll: Hagan 49, Dole 42

billay — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:56:09 -0400

Hey Unbiased, you mean you were educated in those SOCIALIST public schools?

Re: Poll: Hagan 49, Dole 42

PercyKution — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:33:54 -0400

A person would HAVE TO BE A CERTIFIED FOOL to pay the least bit of attention to ANY politician ever again. They are ALL liars, thieves and crooks. Every last one of 'em should be sent to Hell with gasoline britches on.

Re: Poll: Hagan 49, Dole 42

Unbiased101 — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:16:42 -0400

Real_American - must stand for real American moron...

Socialism is defined as refering to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society. Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.

The key line being "All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved."

Universal healthcare is socialist.

Obama's tax plan is socialist.

I was even educated at a public school and public university and I know that this is socialism.

But it is ok because you will get your government handout and become a mere number instead of an individual.

Drink the Kool-Aid you pandering moron

Hagan - Dole

Real_Americans_Think — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:52:04 -0400

The fact that Dole is sinking in the polls is not really a big story nor a surprise. She is an absentee ineffective do-nothing senator who is a rubber stamp for the worst president in U.S. history and has no vision for the future. Even right-wing lies about Obama being supposedly a "socialist" (which is totally untrue) cannot fool or scare people into voting for McCain and Dole, unless you want to see how low the stock market can actually go. Too many of us have lost too much money as a result of GOP incompetence. The last president who gave us a strong economy and federal surpluses was Bill Clinton. It takes a Democrat to bring fiscal responsibility. Hagan is far more fiscally responsible than the mindlessly deficit exploding Dole, who panders to the rich with massive tax cuts while the middle class loses their retirement, savings, and home equitable.

Re: Poll: Hagan 49, Dole 42

Unbiased101 — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:14:26 -0400

GRIF82600 - you must be drinking the Kool-Aid in massive amounts based on your comments.

Senator Government has told Americans to embrace the ideas of socialist government as they are coming as soon as he gets into the White House.

The problem is that most Americans are being feed lies and deception to paint a false picture as to the true story happening in the US.

Kay Hagan is a banker yet had no stance on the bailout bill. Kay Hagan was against offshore drilling until it became politically advantageous to agree with it. At the same time she knows that Pelosi and Reid will renig on their positions and ban offshore and inland drilling against the will of a majority of Americans.

See the light and stop being a blind follower. Wall Street is not bouncing back after the bailout for one simple reason...they are scared of Obama and his socialist ideas that will destroy America and all that we have stood for over the years.

Re: Poll: Hagan 49, Dole 42

grif82600 — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:43:25 -0400

This is encouraging. Dole has aged out of the "suburban picture" while Hagan fits in. Dole has not been in touch with North Carolinians and really doesn't even pretend to like our state (oh, she says she does, but one never sees her anywhere around). Hagan has demonstrated some energy and vitality in her political career while raising a family locally. This plays well in suburbia - always has. The Obama/McCain schism is also galvanizing this same portion of the electorate. Voters are indicating that we want a government addressing issues that affect us the most - economy, education, and health care. The last thing suburbanites want to address right now is war and terrorism. We've simply got to tend the home fires for awhile.

Poll: Hagan 49, Dole 42

bkrueger — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:22:32 -0400

Are suburbanites the key to victory in the U.S. Senate race?

Public Policy Polling says its latest survey shows that Democratic challenger Kay Hagan is piling up big numbers among suburban voters in her race against Republican incumbent Elizabeth Dole. PPP says that is part of the reason that Hagan is ahead, 49-42, in their latest poll.

PPP surveyed 1,200 likely voters on Oct. 18-19. The survey's margin of error was plus or minus 2.8 percentage points.

PPP officials said that Hagan is "annihilating" Dole among suburban voters, 54-36.